Minutes of the Public Meeting at St Mary’s Church
On 15^th April 2010
To discuss the proposal to erect a
Youth Facilities Building on the Holding Field

The meeting was introduced by the Chairman, Mike Evans, Chairman of Whitely Parish Council and a member of the HALC executive. 

Peter Woodman, Chairman of Kingsclere Parish Council, described the history, purpose and current position regarding the building, including a statement of grants obtained and running costs.* 

Kevin Gunter spoke in favour of the proposal, outlining the processes which had gone on to get to this point, stating that it offers a dedicated facility for 0-19 year olds in one place, including affordable, high-quality child care.  This building would meet government requirements as far as the Childcare Strategy; Extended Schools and Next Steps (relating to youth provision) initiatives are concerned.  He concluded by asking everyone to give unswerving support to the project.*

 David Tolson spoke against the proposed building on the grounds that Kingsclere has other, under-used facilities which should be investigated for development for a Youth Club.  He proposed the setting up of a review group composed of a cross-section of village opinion, plus Basingstoke and Deane BC specialists, which would investigate all possible venues for the Youth Club and make recommendations to the Parish Council. This would be followed up by a referendum. He asked that people write to the Parish Council in support of this.*

 * Copies of the full transcripts are available with the original Minutes   currently held at The Parish Office.

 The Meeting was opened up for other members of the public to make a statement.

 David Giles:

Always enjoyed sports clubs in the village as a boy and frequented the old Youth Club. He became involved and is part of the Tennis Club. He feels KPC have “lost the plot”. With The Fieldgate suffering so badly can this not be reused for the Youth? He believes the Insurance money from the destroyed old youth hut could be used to make the necessary changes to accommodate the youth facilities needed. He spoke of a feasibility study and new plans that have been done on behalf of the Kingsclere Community Centre (KCA) which could incorporate all needs. He then asked Cllr Peach if he held a position on the KCA committee and whether or not he was in favour of the new building on the Holding Field.

Tamara Johnson:

A 12 year old girl from the village, wants facilities provided for her and her friends. They have been involved in discussions and forums through the school. They have been promised a youth club for years and are happy to help the Busy Bees and Youth Football Club to make this happen. There is nowhere else for them to meet and play except the kiddies playground in Strokins Road.  

Jim Gibb:

Stated he is against a building provided by government funding that would be 50% dedicated to Busy Bees which he considers to be a business despite it’s charitable status. He doesn’t believe that the majority of youth want a youth club but would be happy with a chat shack. He said that Kingsclere offers plenty of facilities for the youth who wish to be organised. He concluded by saying that the state does not have to provide for children under 4 and he believed that parents should provide for their own.

Janet Bond:

Argued that the assumption that every parent can afford to stay at home and look after their children was no longer the case. Good child care facilities are needed. She sited the problems in having children of different ages in different schools etc, which highlighted the unsuitability of the Fieldgate Centre as a location for a nursery school. She explained her reasons for why she believed the FG Centre is unsuitable for a Youth Club (licensed Bar; remote location; badly lit access roads; intimidating adults) among them. In her time as Chairman of the Youth Club Trustees, they looked at other possible locations for the youth club with no suitable venue found in Kingsclere. She felt a Referendum would be too costly and incur further delays in a project that had already been extensively researched over the last 4 years and which satisfies the requirements of our Village Plan. Young people in other areas are fighting hard to get their own building and we have the ability to provide one for our youth. She felt that people here are out of touch with our young people, that they do want and need space to chill out away from their parents under loose supervision and develop better social skills. We need it so for God’s sake lets stop arguing and get on with it!”

Jacquie Hiscock:

Jacquie works for the Busy Bees and has been running a petition of support, which she stated had been overwhelming. She expressed concerned over the negative attitude some people have to a new building for our young people and felt it said little for the support and care of them. She was against the idea of trying to move the nursery to the FG Centre stating that she felt it had never thrived, that it is a soulless and lifeless place and has been for a number of years. Most villagers don’t go there, others don’t use it but don’t want it to close either. She believes we all need to take responsibility to try and make it work, but it is not suitable for the youth proposals. The grants that Busy Bees have secured cannot be used to support the FG, they are project specific for a new building for early years education.

Mark Hirst:

Agreed that the Village Plan identified the Holding Field as the best location for youth development and amenities but that was based on surveys of 5 years ago. It is time for a review and whilst he believes there is still a need for new or improved buildings, we need to take stock of what we already have. He felt that it needed qualified, professional experts with an impartial approach to carry this out.

Charlotte Newport:

Introduced herself as an 18 year old resident with lots of friends in the village who, like her, all want a Youth Club. She felt that not enough people talk to the youth to ask what they want. Maria Meredith from Busy Bees and Kingsclere Youth Club had been to the school to ask when she was a student there and almost all young people surveyed were enthusiastic about having their own place to go to. She does not like the Fieldgate and does not feel comfortable going there. The youth club proposed for the Holding Field would be totally central to the village and they would feel so much safer there.

Rebecca Hart:

Explained that she is relatively new to the village and has always enjoyed the wonderful community spirit. She is a working mum but has made time to  contribute to the community. She commended Busy Bees as an excellent organisation but they are forced to promote their services from a “gloomy” & “dingy” impractical building. She described the play area as “grotty” and felt that a new purpose built facility was vital for young and pre-school children. She felt it was sad that the FG is not used much but that people should ask why that is. There is a committee in place for the FG and it is up to them to sort out their own problems and turn it’s fortunes around. “Their problems should not affect the children of this village”.    

Ursula Taylor:

An early chair of the Busy Bees, felt that no building should be built on the Holding Field. She spoke of an early covenant on the land which stated that the land should not be built on and should remain as Open Space. She asked if the KPC were planning to overturn the covenant. She was concerned that if this building were permitted, housing could follow. The Holding Field is as much a part of the history of the village as everything else and it should retain its present open status. She felt the covenant should be investigated more.

Martin Beaver:

A leader with the Cubs and Scouts, he thought it was a widely viewed assumption that the youth club would form itself and its needs and that people felt this was right. He questioned the apparent amount of time the youth club is proposing to be open for the young people as full time supervision is not realistic. He felt we needed to look at the long term impact on the village if this were to go ahead and called for a referendum.

Roger Best:

Moved to the village 5 years ago with his family. He felt he knows a bit about young peoples needs as his wife was heavily involved with Surestart in their previous community. He feels that a village community is born at the crèche gates, where the women talk and the kids interact and grow up together. This extends to the nursery environment. We are talking about a new building for the future. There used to be a Youth Club and money from the insurance settlement could be used to build one like the old one but with the Busy Bees fund raising efforts the need can be combined. The Busy Bees grants are only for facilities for the very young. Over the years every aspect appears to have been thoroughly discussed and he appealed that we should not allow this project to be hijacked by the politicians. He offered his services to help with the running of the Youth Club and said he knew of others who would help.

Maria Meredith:

She declared she is the manager of Busy Bees, but wished to speak for the Youth Club which she helps to run. It had been suggested that the village has operated without a youth club for a few years now so why do we need to give the young people one. This is not true, the youth club is still operating but they mainly have to take the children out of the village as there is no home for them here. They have the use of a minibus but that seats only 15, so they are very restricted in numbers and what they can do. The young people have lots of ideas for activities and are happy to be organised into activity. She concluded that the young are the future of this village and it is wrong to neglect their needs for a social centre.  

Ursula Taylor asked to be permitted to read out a joint statement from two ex-councillors. The Chairman declined consent as she had already spoken and other people were still waiting to be heard. The statement was passed to another member of the audience but ultimately not read out.

Tim Cooksey:

Agreed with those that said we need better for facilities for the young people but not in the suggested location. He questioned why we were considering building for the Busy Bees. He stated that Kingsclere has a lot of doubling up of facilities and this should not be a problem. We should address the needs of the whole village and suggested the running of the Fieldgate needs to be looked at professionally.

There were no further requests to take the lectern so the meeting was thrown open to a Q & A session.

Cllr Ray Peach – elected to answer Mr Giles’ question to confirm he was Treasurer of the KCA and that he is in support of a dedicate youth building on the Holding Field.

Stewart Packham – remarked that there was nowhere for children to go and asked if the opposition was all about the Fieldgate Centre, which has never welcomed children and is badly managed. He said we need to look at something positive for the children of the village.

Gareth Martin – questioned whether children wanted a youth club or if this was now rather old fashioned and been taken over by the internet. However, he was glad to see that the design of building had been simplified.

Maria Meredith – Where are people expected to send their children? Busy Bees are oversubscribed and meeting only 1/5^th of the pre-school needs in the village. They need to expand and there is no possibility of that in their current premises. If people go out of the village for their pre-school needs there is the risk that they will fulfil other needs out of the village and that could impact on our local shops and businesses.

Tim Cooksey – Questioned why Busy Bees were only putting in £12k when they were claiming 50% of the building for their own use.  

Maria Meredith – responded that they need more dedicated facilities as an OFSTED requirement and they had raised more than half of the funds through dedicated early years funding. If in BB were to fail within the first 10 years, which is unlikely given they have been going over 30 year now,  Hampshire County Council will put another pre-school into the premises and this is a condition of the funding.

Martin Weaver – Asked what are the liabilities for the village?

Cllr Peter Woodman – replied – If Busy Bees fail HCC take over. If the Youth Club fail or BB after 10 years, the building will revert to Kingsclere Parish Council management. It is not complicated and other uses could be found for it, however, it is very unlikely that this would happen, research indicates otherwise. The building would bring in an income and no financial liabilities are perceived.

Jayne Thompson – Is a user of the FG Centre and has been a former manager, there have always been problems, these should not become problems for our provision of youth facilities. She asked Mr Tolson to advise where he thinks children should go? 

David Tolson – responded – He believes there are options but there should be a review to evaluate all these before money is spent on a new building.

Maria Meredith – There has been evaluation – a feasibility study that cost £10k, looked at every existing community building in Kingsclere as did the funding bodies before they agreed to put money into the project. Independent assessments have been professionally undertaken by outside consultants at further costs and many public consultations have been staged…if people chose not to come, we could not make them.

David Tolson – did not agree that there had been an evaluation of all the options.

Jayne Thompson  – asked where we go from here, what will the parish council do after this meeting, how will this issue be resolved.

Cllr Peter Woodman; KPC Chairman – Replied: At the last PC Meeting, it was agreed that members would need to draw up a Leasing agreement and that remains as the current plan for action and the next step by the Council.

Janet Bond – felt that sufficient time and consideration has already been expended on this project and considered that the council should take it forward without delay. 

Cllr Peter Goff – former chairman of the Holding Field Working Party and vice chairman of KPC – advised on the feasibility studies that have been done and independent assessments. All meetings of the Holding Field Working Party had been reported back to full council and minuted. He also advised that the Turnbull family had been consulted through counsel and had no objection to a community building on the land.

Member of Public – name unknown  – Asked again…what next?

Cllr Peter Woodman – replied: The Parish Council are looking at the leasing arrangements between all the parties and this will involve the services of a solicitor. At the last Ordinary Meeting of the Parish Council the then cllr Smith called for a Public Meeting before any further discussion or work was done on the Lease. This meeting complies with that request and the committee will convene again to further review the position.  

Cllr Andy Bates – Expressed concern over the obvious split in our community regarding this issue. We must find a way of uniting the village and called for a referendum to resolve this issue once and for all. This was strongly supported by a show of hands in excess of 15. (An exact record was not called for though a straw poll was called for [Fred Giles], debated but not implemented)

Cllr Bates felt that the whole village should be prepared to go with the result of the referendum and we should then draw a line under all the debates and agree to abide by the majority decision. Petitions and counter petitions are not the answer in this case.

Cllr Peter Woodman – explained the rules of a referendum – it would be run by the Borough Council to a timetable set by them, polls would be open between 4:00pm and 9:00pm only and no postal votes are permitted.

Janet Dixon – Challenged the benefit of a referendum which she felt it would just enhance the obvious split in opinion in the village and waste funds. We need a win–win situation and she felt we already had that. The money is in place, the need has been established and if people wanted to help the FG Centre they could choose to do so, but that should remain as a centre for adults. We only risk wasting more money if the project is delayed any longer.

Beth Theobald – is a registered childminder who understands the hoops you have to go through for a dedicated child care facility. She agreed with Janet Dixon that everything is good to go and we should get on with it.

Cllr Peter Goff – commented that there was a lot of energy in the room tonight and suggested that we all pull together to use it get the Fieldgate Centre going.

Mike Evans closed the meeting at 9:30pm stating that it had been an interesting debate and wished us luck in our deliberations.

Cllr Peter Woodman – offered thanks to Mike Evans for coming all this way to chair the meeting.